I had an idea the other day... and here it is.

Titans with no shields (and at least 1 weapon) can "deploy" themselves into a non-movable structure. The titan cannot undeploy, it can only be destroyed or self destruct and is much like a totem.

The advantage of deployment is that the titan gain double the weapons range, although it can no longer shoot within its standard weapons range. I.e. A WT104 titan would have a weapons range of 9-16 hexes. The theory being that the titan simply fires at a higher angel thus can attain better range. Though as the salvo will have to travel higher into Tartarus's chaotic atmosphere another disadvantage is that accuracy is affected and the salvos can drift into other hexes.

This allows the tactic of artillery shelling, either in aid of or as part of a defense or offense.

To keep things balanced the titan itself is quite vunerable as it is unshielded, stationary, somewhat inaccurate, and has to fire blind as its fire range will most likely be beyond its scan range. However I'm sure every clan playing could think of potential uses and ways to use the rule to break previously stagnant lines.

Finally, I think the salvos from deployed titans should be blue... just as a means of differentiating and that the number of deployed titans should have a set limit.

Comments, etc...

Phoenix aka.

Oh wow, that's good. VERY good.

A few questions though:

Would deploying double the range bonus you get from mountains and hills as well, or only the titans base range?

Would deployed titans still be able to be repaired?

I especially like the fact that salvos can drift, it means that it is possible to have unintentional friendly fire from your own clan and not just allies.

About the drift caused by the salvo going so high, how would that work? Would the salvo have stable accuracy up until it begins reaching past the titan's normal range? Does the chance of a drift increase the farther the titan shoot? Does the max possible drift increase the further the titan shoots?

Another facet you could add to the idea would be wind strength and direction. I have an idea for how that would work, but I figured it would be best to wait a bit until other people comment on artillery titans first.

Would deploying double the range bonus you get from mountains and hills as well, or only the titans base range?

For the sake of coding ease, yes. However the normal range is calculated, this is done as normal simply x2. Remember though that a deployed titan can't fire within its "normal" fire range. So the extra range comes at a cost of being able to fire at close-by enemy titans.

Would deployed titans still be able to be repaired?

I don't see why not.

I especially like the fact that salvos can drift, it means that it is possible to have unintentional friendly fire from your own clan and not just allies.

Indeed. The primary use of deployed artillery units would be to dish out massive damage on a front line. If however standard units are to advance upon the newly weakened front the artillery must cease or risk hitting its own units. Or overshoot to protect its own units, cut off the enemies supply lines and still gain some hits on the enemy front line due to drifting.

About the drift caused by the salvo going so high, how would that work?

In the code, I imagine some sort of target board anology with different zone assigned different probabilities of being hit. I.e. a 30% of hitting the centre (i.e being accurate) 20% of hitting the next ring of hexes, 10% for the next, 10% for the next etc, etc...



Would the salvo have stable accuracy up until it begins reaching past the titan's normal range?

No, the titan cannot fire within its "normal" range at all.

Does the chance of a drift increase the farther the titan shoot?

Whatever is easiest to code.

Does the max possible drift increase the further the titan shoots?

I suppose it should really, yes.

Another facet you could add to the idea would be wind strength and direction. I have an idea for how that would work, but I figured it would be best to wait a bit until other people comment on artillery titans first.

Personally I think that's overcomplicating it a bit. I don't think Tartarus needs a weather model!

although it can no longer shoot within its standard weapons range.

Lol, I missed that part in my first read-through.

Personally I think that's overcomplicating it a bit. I don't think Tartarus needs a weather model!

Eh, I guess your right. But I was just talking about the wind, not storms!

Still even though there would be details to knock the rough edges off ... not a bad idea really ...

madmonkey wrote:

There would be details to knock the rough edges off... .

Such as?

Phoenix wrote:

madmonkey wrote: There would be details to knock the rough edges off... . Such as?

LOL .. sorry I didn't mean to imply that I thought the idea as discussed here had any rough edges. None that I can think of ... but new rules will almost always have unforseen effects when added to the game without the benefit of testing.
Short answer .. I think it's a good idea but I'm going to reserve final judgement until AFTER it's been put into effect and we can see how it gets exploited in game.

There are many changes that could/should be investigated.

It is important to remove some of the predictablity of the game....bring some randomness into it, as well as a little more player choice.

The use of gates could be randomised with the opportunity for a gated unit to be driven off course and to appear in a completely different location from that targeted. There doesn't have to be a large chance, perhaps no more than 1%, but the deviation should be massive, even with the possibilty of landing in water and drowning. The entrance and exit co-ordinates should be hidden from all but that clan.

Specialisation. When a fighting unit is bred directly from a Hall, as opposed to from a breeder, it could be given the chance to 'specialise' and receive a bonus on that specialisation. E.g. weapons specialist gives an increased 5% chance to hit, shield specialist gives an increased 5% chance to deflect, engine specialist gives increased movement.

Halls. All clans could receive a Hall from birth, rather than a mother. The Hall could remain invulnerable for a time, after which it would be paid for to be maintained and would become vulnerable.

As was suggested in epoch 2, a Hall could not be allowed within 10, or even 15 hexes of another Hall, thus making defence and Hall movement more of an issue.

A clan could only receive one Hall, and when it's dead it's dead.

Breeders could only be bred from a Hall.

Change the way of scoring. Scrap Ranking scores and substitute with a straight cumulative score. On the 1000th turn the winner could be the player with the highest score divided by the number of turns they have been on the Sphere.

Probably more to come.

Steels

The production of gates.

A transgate could be produced in which the acceletion provided is linked to tech unit expenditure. Where a wormhole can be formed with minimum expenditure (1 comp/2 eng), to form a transgate would require the destruction of a fully teched and kitted out unit....the bigger the unit the higher the acceleration provided.

The transgate could exist for one turn only.

Fungal Infection.

A strange fungus has started to appear on the sphere. It spores for a week and then disappears.

Breeders that eat this fungus receive be benefit of extra tech, but randomly.

Could be in the green, could be in the blue....who knows.

Copied from Warcry

As the Evolution and The One War has proven, OT titans die on the offensive and make the defensive nearly impossible to breach. We have now made a stagnant war even more stagnant. The capped offensive we have made in the last month consisted of over 100 titans attacking a single point. We were initially succesful, but once we reached a point where Zere Ones OT's were at, everything came to a screeching halt. Even with more OT's on the offense, we cannot break beyond that point.

Without a major rule shift, I belive OT's have become the nail in the coffin for stagnation. There have been many killed in offensive manuevers. They made progresss, the enemy brought in a counter OT and then things went back to stagnant. I think the implimentation of Phoenix Arty idea may be enough to create fluidity amongst the armies, but for now, only overwhelming odds will allow one side to make progress against another.

As it is, we are losing two members of Evolution and possible another two to follow becuase things have become too stagnant and predictable to justify the time each turn takes.

I dont know if the ark rules are the answer. In epoch two we had a similar problem with stagnation on an ever increasing tech scale. Two balanced armies always tend towards solid desings and cancle each other out. This is why I believe the arty sacrifice may work. You can break solid lines but must replace teh titans when doing so. Titans on the move become move valuable then titans sitting still. Large clusters of titan become very vulnerable and your able to advance under the protection of your guns.

I know jonnigod has talked about letting tartarus run its course, but the idea seems simple enough and effective enough that it may bring life back to tartarus.

I was thinking last night, while trying to sleep, that there were two rules changes that made things the way they are now. Rules that were changed in the ark sphere that had more reasons to exist then, but probably should be re looked now.

1. Shields. I distincly remember there being a rebalancing of sheilds verse weapons. Not sure which piece it was, experience, formula, or something else. In the early epoch people tended to build bigger guns and warfare was mobile. Titans died easier and at some point the rules were modified to allow titans to survive longer. I remember the discussion where people said that now everyone would tend towards higher shields because it made titans much harder to kill verse guns. Titan Expeirience was the caveat in that alot of low wt guns with experience could be more powerful. If it was easier to kill titans and you could approach a hill with enough forces, clearing off the top might be easier, making defense less powerful.

2. Gates. Gate attacks were feared to be too powerful, but added lots of mobility to wars. You could attack jsut about anywhere with some sort of force and attacking breeders or getting behind the lines was alot more common. Granted your weapons were damaged, with enough computers you could destroy breeders and force teh enemy to reposition. I think that now that there arent so many clans and a cap, theres less risk of massive hall mount attacks destroying lpayers and making them leave. The threat of hall loss is no longer terrifying and people are afraid of losing a hall if it is capped. I say bringing this back would be enough to rebalance.

3. Spuds idea to simply change the movment algorythm so you can attack uphill with more then a couple guns might be the path as well.

Everything Steels said rings true. Tartarus does need more player choice, like RipSpace has. Perhaps Titans could be modified to have special features, such as trucker titans to carry normal ones (I suggested this myself long, long ago. However, I used the word transporter instead of trucker and everyone got it confused and said it was too similar to gates.), the Artillery Titans are an excellent example, melee titans that can attack only 1 or 2 hexes away but ignore shields, mine-laying titans, kamikazee titans exploding in a small area, and I would pull more random ideas but it is a bit useless/repetitive.

So, it would seem to me that Artillery Titans are agreed upon and can't seem to be improven upon by the populace. Cool, perhaps I'll rejoin once/if they get implemented. I suspect Jonothan is busy with his newest creation though, and what a creation it is!

EDIT:
Well now, it seems they CAN be improven upon by the populace!

Quote:

3. Spuds idea to simply change the movment algorythm so you can attack uphill with more then a couple guns might be the path as well.

Never thought of that. That's probably one of the easiest rule changes to impliment, yet has a profound effect on gameplay.

Simply double titan movement to what it currently is. Suddenly armies can advance firing all weapons. Artillery can zoom past defences and interfere with supply lines, etc. I seem to remember that the movement rules were changed previously (Argyles anchor) which made large titans cumbersome, seemed somewhat overkill... perhaps a simple x2 could rebalance it a little.

I also like "2", which is basically allowing fighters to gate again. But then I've always liked that.

Gotta go, being nagged!

P.

My thoughts are that two equivalent nations should stalemate.

The solution is allies to break the stalemate. Both sides take this approach, letting ground slip when they have to.
The result is stalemate again.

To change this is hard, and has to involve terrain. i.e. The way to break an enemy should involve some form of ownership creating a temporary advantage. In real life you bomb the factories to break the stale mate. You destroy the resource pool so that the armies are no longer evenly matched.

On tartarus the obvious thing to do is corrupt the bio-mass. Maybe it is that easy? Or maybe an area effect device which destroys spawning chambers. i.e. something to distrupt the resupply.

Anything which changes the mechanics of war is going to be very hard to rebalance. i.e. a well established defence should be hard to break. And if the armies are the same size then should it be impossible to break?

Artillary and mobility are both good though. Maybe artillary destroys bio-mass as well as titans?
Maybe we simply get rid of suppressive fire. Means you can always charge to a new location without suffering damage.

Maybe we combine all these ideas:
Artillary: have no shields, and must be deployed to fire. Once deployed they can never move again. When they fire their range is from normal range to *2. They cannot fire at targets closer than 'normal range'. Their shots drift by up to 2 hexes in any direction. They can only fire at one location (hex) each turn. They can fire blind, and lay down suppressive fire. This fire destroys bio-mass and also hits titans than move through it.

I think we need another addendum, the WT of artillary counts double. Basically, artillary will quickly destroy any static line.

Non artillary units can only do direct fire. They cannot fire at empty hexes.


This reflects the 'real life' aspects of combat. Means attacking is easier.