Dear God,

How about: Cover ("indirect") fire only damages the first titan to pass through it. It is otherwise used up and spent.

This will then allow me to charge, en mass, at Frost Lords without taking so much bleeding damage.

Yours selfishly,

Phoenix.

P.S. Yes I imagine it would be somewhat unpredictable as to what titan got hit if lots pass through the same hex, but hey - thats a good thing! Gives the defender a chance!
P.P.S. Attacking is fun!

BUT. As soon as that was made then defending would be impossible.

Nonsense. It would just be as hard as attacking. Makes things balenced.

Name one battle where attackers were on an even footing with defenders.

Defenders need an advantage, otherwise you spend ALL your power holding off aggressors. Any chance at tactics and strategy vanishes, especially with immobile halls (as per the new rules).

i.e. to carpet bomb a valley and force aggressors to take to the (slow) hill route is at at least some advantage.

Unexpiring cover fire eliminates every advantage that an attacking titan/group/clan should have.

I should be able to withdraw damaged units without them suffering the damage their neighbours have taken.

I should be able to advance units past others that are taking fire.

I should be able to move a group of titans several hexes without them all exploding.

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Ok, compromise, how about:

Direct fire (i.e. shots fired directly at a titan) = single use bullets, will only damage the titan in the hex, NOT any that pass through.

Indirect fire (i.e. shots fired into empty hexes) = regenerating minefield. All titans that pass through will suffer damage.

Defenders don't lose their blanket fire advantage, but attackers gain a little more mobility whislt under fire.

Phoenix wrote:

Ok, compromise, how about: Direct fire (i.e. shots fired directly at a titan) = single use bullets, will only damage the titan in the hex, NOT any that pass through. Indirect fire (i.e. shots fired into empty hexes) = regenerating minefield. All titans that pass through will suffer damage. Defenders don't lose their blanket fire advantage, but attackers gain a little more mobility whislt under fire.

Not such a bad idea ....
Nice one Phoenix

Phoenix wrote:

Ok, compromise, how about: Direct fire (i.e. shots fired directly at a titan) = single use bullets, will only damage the titan in the hex, NOT any that pass through. Indirect fire (i.e. shots fired into empty hexes) = regenerating minefield. All titans that pass through will suffer damage. Defenders don't lose their blanket fire advantage, but attackers gain a little more mobility whislt under fire.

Yeah, so the net result of this will actually be that it’s safer to move through hexes occupied by your own troops than to move through empty hexes. Build some high shield units station them in a line then funnel your attacking army though that handful of hexes taking no damage until they emerge into clear space.

Even better you’d also be able to move through the enemy units you were shooting at without taking any damage either.

This would still make it to hard to actually hold a strong point. As any attacker would simply need to funnel everything they had at a single point in order to break through.

The real point is that attacking an enemy strong point that has taken advantage of the terrain is supposed to be difficult. Some of the hill, mountain and chaos sea terrain features are the Tartarus equivalent of bunkers, trenches and fortifications. Such terrain weights things in the defenders favour as it should, attackers therefore should require either better tactics or greater numbers in order to achieve victory.

The defender has already sacrificed both the initiative and manoeuvrability to the attacker. The defender must cover most approaches, where the attacker can pick and choice both the time and point of attack. Utilised correctly these advantages make it possible to wrong foot the defender badly enough to make the attack much more likely to succeed.

Of course some times given the right terrain and sufficient weight of numbers it’s possible to set up a more or less impenetrable defence. The trick here is not to tilt the balance of the game to make it impossible to do this, but rather for an intelligent attacker to not pointlessly assault a position they can’t actually take.

Further more I have no real idea why you are complaining Phoenix, you ought to be congratulating yourself on every so nearly having got me bang to rights. You neatly managed to get me to over commit myself against your first OT, and still got it away before I could achieve a kill, and if I hadn’t had one or two spotters out on the other side you might have been all over my hall before I could move it. If we were now playing under the new rules I think you’d be a shoe in for a hall kill, and perhaps you might still get one if you can keep pressing onwards before I can get fully reorganised.

I'm not complaining. And actually, you did kill Phoenix (congrats!)... he never emerged out of my wormhole exit. Still, I must pat my self on the back for a well executed distraction

To address your points:

Tunnelling. Yes I thought of that, but I also thought that this can still be countered by simply firing ahead of the tunnel. Targetting the tunnel itself is also not without reward as you'd gain a lot of experience and could "crack" it in the centre, thus regaining your advantage. I don't think this tactic would be used as much as you think (of course theres a good way of finding out!) Anyway, what is wrong with using heavy armour to shield your infantry? I'm all for good defenses, but I'm also for aggressive full frontal assaults. They work in real life, they should work in Tartarus.

Quote:

Even better you’d also be able to move through the enemy units you were shooting at without taking any damage either.

Yes, I agree that this isn't a good thing. So either:

1) You are only protected from direct fire when travelling through your own titans, not other clans'. Or,
2) You cannot pass through enemy titans.

(1) closes the exploit quite cleanly, (2) might be overkill, but opens up the possibility of blockade tactics for the defender.

Quote:

The real point is that attacking an enemy strong point that has taken advantage of the terrain is supposed to be difficult. Of course some times given the right terrain and sufficient weight of numbers it’s possible to set up a more or less impenetrable defence. The trick here is not to tilt the balance of the game to make it impossible to do this, but rather for an intelligent attacker to not pointlessly assault a position they can’t actually take.

If we're talking about your defense, it is by no means impenetrable by a single clan! I have every confidence that I will topple your defences and avenge the death of the mighty Titan Phoenix. If the ASIAS rule were in place, I'm sure you would have taken additional precautions to counter my possible use of "funnel" tactics.

Ultimately there would be no difference in the outcome, merely the battle would be a little more realistic with a wider variety of offensive and defensive tactics in play.

Oh my defense isn't impentetrable by a single clan, merely a tough nut to crack.

When I said inpenetrable I was more thinking of some of the 5 or 6 clan alliances defensive positions I've seen in the past. Once you've got enough titans to blanket cover every possible approach to your stronghold it's more or less impenetrable.

All the more reason to make blanket fire a little less effective.

I was thinking about this earlier. How about:

Keep firing as it is, (i.e. no direct/indirect aspect)... once a salvo causes damage it is spent. If a salvo misses (or is deflected) it gets to "try again" on any titans passing through the hex.


Example:
Titan Z fires 10 salvos at hex 1.
In hex 1 is Titan A. Titan B, Titan C and Titan D all pass through hex 1.

Titan A takes 10 hits, 5 cause damage, 5 are deflected.
Titan B take 5 hits, 2 cause damage, 3 are deflected.
Titan C takes 3 hits, 0 cause damage, all 3 are deflected.
Titan D takes 3 hits, 3 cause damage, 0 are left.

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This makes more logical sense as 1 salvo cannot score damage on multiple titans. Coverfire is still effective, though the sting of magically replenishing salvos is removed.

The "shield station" mentioned previously isn't effective at all as all hits will be deflected and then go on to damage titans passing through the hex. Although, some sort of cannon-fodder titan could be designed to absorb damage, but such a titan wouldn't last very long... though maybe enough to get a few units through, but then, maybe not!

The rule then allows a greater degree of freedom of movement amoungst a clans own ranks (or indeed that of their allies) as only salvos that miss the titans they pass (through) can hit them.

So, passing through a titan under fire is dangerous, but not suicidal.

What d'you think?