would it be possible not to lose any max DL if the ship jumping out has taken no damage (as in it never actually fought) you could add other stipulations like it will still lose a max DL if it has drones still on the map or something... just feels kinda weird suffering the same penalty for being forced to leave out of a system due to losing the fight... as when your just leaving and no fight ever really took place...

I dunno just a suggestion... perhaps there could be a max distance the enemy has to be if they are to get the DL (like 30-40) and taken no damage (call me crazy if you want, but not everybody likes to fight it out just because someone you don't know yet jumped in )

Issues;
1) change to fundimental game structure when we're trying to be "stable."
2) this is a war-game...
3) how do you measure "no conflict."

I don't like the "no transfer if uninjured" - it's possible to have been in a fight but through luck or otherwise not take damage.

That said, I don't disagree with the idea- what if the darklight "loss" were shifted to darklight being "taken."

ie;
The frigate Shift jumps away from a system with enemies, the nearest ship, the Vlad, recieves a system generated offer to take darklight, which they may accept or refuse. if they accept the Shift looses 1 as it leaves and the Vlad gains 1. If they refuse the closest ship of another race gets the offer, the Stag...
If every race in-system refuses to take DarkLight, the ship's passage to the galactic is unmolested...

needless to say this is fairly complex, but any sort of system of "jump without cost" is going to be somewhat complex to avoid abuses by players that try to jump without loss.

as I said, I was kinda just throwing the idea out there, though it is kinda going against the fact it is a war game... just I feel kinda bad being 'penalized' when I'm not trying to be someone who just looks for a fight at someone just for jumping in.

in reality, there's other problems with the 1 DL per kill... a ship will get the same reward from killing a 74 unit mauler as it will get from a 10 unit fighter, meaning if someone so chooses to use a 10 fighter squad in a battle and loses to a single mauler... that single mauler will effectively become ancient (provided they have subscription, of course) just from that single battle.

I suppose there is other ways around this though... like if you and the other person simply want to get out of the system, you could insist on him jumping in then back out a small fighter so you don't lose max DL... but that would still leave the person staying behind the same reward as though he fought it out and won.

I dunno... I guess I'm just really saying it's kinda weird that as far as the ships go, no matter what, you always get same reward (1 DL per ship that get's killed or fleed) whether it was a small 4 unit fighter just looking around, or a large mauler that almost (but not quite) won

like for instance, in one of the dispatches, it has where some cruisers almost kill off another ship, but leave when reinforcements arrive. even though they really 'won' the battle (almost destroying the ship) in terms of who gets what, they just gave up 1 DL per ship to the other, just like as though that 1 ship actually was winning.
...
*wonders if any of this makes sense*

--edit:
meh, if nothing like this is going to go in, just say so, I'll probably just go with the flow and take up 'if you come into contact, there will ba a battle'

I've got the highest DL ship on the "leaderboard," and a lower point on the board, because someone jumped a bunch of fighters in to my homeworld and backed out when I asked...

I think it's a problem.

I'm trying to field a group of fighters. Each one uses its DL more than the entire larger contengent of my fleet... but each one is driven off by a single shot (usually they get away from the drone or out of the system without being destroyed).

This is going to be a massive windfall for those facing these fighters- and even if I destroy any ships gaining the primary amount of the benefit there will simply be a net loss.

I actually agree. I was thinking along the lines of distance from enemy.

eg ark ships that jump out are damaged but should not lose DL.

Maybe I need a new flag, which shows you have joined in with combat - either by being targetted by an arttack drone, or by firing anything other than a colony drone.

A bit more work for me, but still worth doing. I'll sticky this one.

GameAdmin wrote:

I actually agree. I was thinking along the lines of distance from enemy.

problem; what if I move halfway across the map then jump out... too easy to abuse.

GameAdmin wrote:

eg ark ships that jump out are damaged but should not lose DL.

the problem is that ark ships damage themselves simply by firing colony drones.

GameAdmin wrote:

Maybe I need a new flag, which shows you have joined in with combat - either by being targetted by an arttack drone, or by firing anything other than a colony drone.

Being targetted seems a little harsh- arrival is enough to break that sometimes. I've had colony ships targeted before I knew someone else was in-system- I'd left them hanging and someone jumped in. even though I moved away and tried to jump, they had still been targeted.
Not firing is a better option, though it makes scout ships "immune" to DL transfer (not necessarilly a bad thing, just a thing).

However its done, destroyed ships should always ignore whatever "flag" is chosen and give DL.


I would also suggest that a ship that's not liable for DL lost should not be eligable for DL gain either.

well, if someone is right on your tail then that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about when 2 people in the same system agree not to fight over what really is pointless (say they both are just in to drop off a couple colonies to move on)

if they are being targetted, then chances are, one of the 2 people are actually trying to fight... though you may want a notice that it is being targetted if you try to jump, that way they don't just target you at the last minute, say your clear, then you jump out and find yourself losing DL (in this case chances are they are coming back to fight if they weren't before, lol)

really, my 1 only problem I had with this suggestion (what? you can have foreseeable problems, just trying to get around them) is in the fact that this is supposed to be a wargame, and if just jumping in is going to mean one person is going to lose DL, then it helps in the fact there will be wars.

--edit: yay, my first stickied

Dragonia wrote:

if they are being targetted, then chances are, one of the 2 people are actually trying to fight... though you may want a notice that it is being targetted if you try to jump, that way they don't just target you at the last minute, say your clear, then you jump out and find yourself losing DL (in this case chances are they are coming back to fight if they weren't before, lol)

Not necessarilly. This isn't that big of change from now, and helps the "non-combatant" ships only vaugely. Of the ideas, this is one of the better... I'm just not sure it's "fair," in the sense that a player with no compunctions about firing on any colony ship (and no interest in the social aspect of the game) suddenly has access to reserves of DL that more social players might be too "polite" to tap.

Dragonia wrote:

really, my 1 only problem I had with this suggestion is in the fact that this is supposed to be a wargame, and if just jumping in is going to mean one person is going to lose DL, then it helps in the fact there will be wars.

Not necessarrilly- why risk 2 when 1 pays the toll? Especially with the tradition of escalation, that 1 is probably going to be paid... either that or the ship is a combatant anyway.


~shrugs~
The other side, for me, is an abiding feeling that darklight just isn't sufficiently influential on the game. it's most useful for the weakest ships, but doesn't compensate (especially given that these ships loose it the easiest and the largest ships can burn it faster). ... It isn't a resource that can be shifted in any way.
It's simply lost and gained effectively at random.

I was thinking about that actually...

perhaps you could in some way sacrifice your max DL (not the total amount your ship has ever had) to increase certain aspects of certain units on your ships... was kinda thinking of this from the tartarus game where you would upgrade your titans (sorry, haven't tried actually playing it yet though)

anyway, basically, say you have 21 max DL (meaning it is an ancient ship) and you use 5 of that 21 max DL to upgrade some of your ship's drone racks. now the drone racks could be upgraded to function as 2 drone racks when being used normally... or that it will take 2 nano's to destroy (or in the case of SS, it would take 3 or 4)

the actual total for the ship would still be 21, meaning it is still ancient, but the max it can actually collect would now be 16.

... meh, this needs it's own seperate thread though, so I'm gonna copy and paste over to there.

oh, and as far as targetted goes, I dunno about shaman, but I meant as in currently being targetted... a simple check into all drones to see if the ship is the firer or intended victim would work here

My final design for this is:

If your ship jumps out of a system within 5 of your trade gate then it suffers no loss of dark light.

Nice and simple, and nice and territorial.

intriguing.
I think I like that a lot...

open to abuse by a defender, but not horribly so.
raises the specter of invasion, and threat levels.
trade gates are clear markers of when someone's claimed turf, and if both inhabitants want to leave peacefully they can do so simply...

yeah, I think I like that a lot.